Sources
Sources
302. “Hanna Moses-in the Switzerland, Jewish Arrivals, 1938-1945.”
Hanna Moses
in the Switzerland, Jewish Arrivals, 1938-1945
Name:
Hanna Moses
Gender:
Female
Birth Date:
30 Sep 1927
Arrival Date:
11 Aug 1943
Nationality I:
Staatenlos
Nationality II:
Staatenlos
Hanna Moses
in the Switzerland, Jewish Arrivals, 1938-1945
Name:
Hanna Moses
Gender:
Female
Birth Date:
30 Sep 1927
Arrival Date:
11 Aug 1943
Nationality I:
Staatenlos
Nationality II:
Staatenlos
303. “Death Hanna Meyer-Moses.”
File: Bildschirmfoto 2024-02-27 um 13.36.21
File: Bildschirmfoto 2024-02-27 um 13.36.21
304. “Suzanne Moses-in the Switzerland, Jewish Arrivals, 1938-1945-.”
Suzanne Moses
in the Switzerland, Jewish Arrivals, 1938-1945
Detail Source
Name
Suzanne Moses
Gender
Female
Birth Date
11 Apr 1929
Arrival Date
11 Aug 1943
Nationality I
Staatenlos
Nationality II
Staatenlo
Suzanne Moses
in the Switzerland, Jewish Arrivals, 1938-1945
Detail Source
Name
Suzanne Moses
Gender
Female
Birth Date
11 Apr 1929
Arrival Date
11 Aug 1943
Nationality I
Staatenlos
Nationality II
Staatenlo
307. OSB Altdorf gives the name Emanuel with birthday of 21 Dec 1816 as opposed to LLD's date of 1812 and name Mennle. They should be the same person since LLD and OSB agree on the names and dates of Mennle's siblings.
The wives and children of Emanuel are all according to OSB Altdorf #3971 and 3979. The second part of Abraham's bible inscription written by Aron (Mennle's father) says Samstag den 2. Tebeth 5572 (1812)
The wives and children of Emanuel are all according to OSB Altdorf #3971 and 3979. The second part of Abraham's bible inscription written by Aron (Mennle's father) says Samstag den 2. Tebeth 5572 (1812)
308. “OSB Altdorf 4123 p626 Jakob Lang_Maria Dreifuss.”
File: OSB Altdorf Entry 4123 p 626 Jakob Lang_Maria Dreifuss
File: OSB Altdorf Entry 4123 p 626 Jakob Lang_Maria Dreifuss
309. From information in letter from Betty Moses (mother of Hanna Meyer Moses) to Hans Dreifuss of Emmendingen written 7 July 1935 (copy in my files).
316. “Emma Dreyfuss-in the Baden, Germany Emigration Index, 1866-191.”
Emma Dreyfuss
in the Baden, Germany Emigration Index, 1866-191
Name
Emma Dreyfuss
Place of Origin (Town, District, Province)
Altdorf, Ettenheim, Baden
Year Emigrated
1872
Emma Dreyfuss
in the Baden, Germany Emigration Index, 1866-191
Name
Emma Dreyfuss
Place of Origin (Town, District, Province)
Altdorf, Ettenheim, Baden
Year Emigrated
1872
317. Emilie Dreyfuss
in the Hamburg Passenger Lists, 1850-193
Name
Emilie Dreyfuss
Gender
weiblich (Female)
Marital Status
ledig (Single)
Departure Age
20
Birth Date
abt 1851
Residence Place
Hochberg
Departure Date
4. Okt 1871 (4 Oct 1871)
Departure Place
Hamburg, Deutschland (Germany)
Destination
USA
Arrival Place
New York
Ship Name
Westphalia
Captain
Schwensen
Shipping Clerk
Aug. Bolten Wm. Miller's Nachfolger
Shipping Line
Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft
Ship Type
Dampfschiff
Ship Flag
Deutschland
Accommodation
Zwischendeck
Volume
373-7 I, VIII A 1 Band 025
in the Hamburg Passenger Lists, 1850-193
Name
Emilie Dreyfuss
Gender
weiblich (Female)
Marital Status
ledig (Single)
Departure Age
20
Birth Date
abt 1851
Residence Place
Hochberg
Departure Date
4. Okt 1871 (4 Oct 1871)
Departure Place
Hamburg, Deutschland (Germany)
Destination
USA
Arrival Place
New York
Ship Name
Westphalia
Captain
Schwensen
Shipping Clerk
Aug. Bolten Wm. Miller's Nachfolger
Shipping Line
Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft
Ship Type
Dampfschiff
Ship Flag
Deutschland
Accommodation
Zwischendeck
Volume
373-7 I, VIII A 1 Band 025
318. Name: Heinrich Dreifuss
Arrival Date: 2 Jun 1875
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Age: 17
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Hamburg, Germany and Le Havre, France
Destination: United States of America
Place of Origin: Switzerland
Ethnicity/Race-
/Nationality: Swiss
Ship Name: Pommerania
Search Ship Database: Search the Pommerania in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 36
Microfilm Serial: M237
Microfilm Roll: M237_398
List Number: 451
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
This agrees with other information on his immigation and must be him in spite of listing him from Switzerland
Arrival Date: 2 Jun 1875
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Age: 17
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Hamburg, Germany and Le Havre, France
Destination: United States of America
Place of Origin: Switzerland
Ethnicity/Race-
/Nationality: Swiss
Ship Name: Pommerania
Search Ship Database: Search the Pommerania in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 36
Microfilm Serial: M237
Microfilm Roll: M237_398
List Number: 451
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
This agrees with other information on his immigation and must be him in spite of listing him from Switzerland
319. “Federal Census 1880,” Mifflinburg, PA, June 2, 1880, Series T9, Reel 1197, EnumerationDistrict 165, Sheet No 04.
Henry (21) and Fannie Dreifuss (20) lived next door to Aaron (33), Hannah (22) and Rosie (3 months) on Chestnut Street in Mifflinburg, PA. The brothers were notions dealers. All of the adults were bore in Baden as were their parents. Rosie was born in PA.
Henry (21) and Fannie Dreifuss (20) lived next door to Aaron (33), Hannah (22) and Rosie (3 months) on Chestnut Street in Mifflinburg, PA. The brothers were notions dealers. All of the adults were bore in Baden as were their parents. Rosie was born in PA.
320. “1910 Federal Census,” Detroit, MI, 23 Apr 1910.
Name:
Henry Doeifuss
[Henry Dreifuss]
[Henry Dolifuss]
Age in 1910:
57
[51]
Birth Year:
abt 1853
[abt 1859]
Birthplace:
Germany
Home in 1910:
Detroit Ward 3, Wayne, Michigan
Race:
White
Gender:
Male
Immigration Year:
1874
Relation to Head of House:
Head
Marital Status:
Married
Spouse's Name:
Fannie Doeifuss
Father's Birthplace:
Germany
Mother's Birthplace:
Germany
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
Henry Doeifuss
57
[51]
Fannie Doeifuss
53
Isaac Doeifuss
29
Rae Doeifuss
25
Maurice Doeifuss
23
Alice Doeifuss
20
Leon Doeifuss
18
Isaaorl Cohen
25
Name:
Henry Doeifuss
[Henry Dreifuss]
[Henry Dolifuss]
Age in 1910:
57
[51]
Birth Year:
abt 1853
[abt 1859]
Birthplace:
Germany
Home in 1910:
Detroit Ward 3, Wayne, Michigan
Race:
White
Gender:
Male
Immigration Year:
1874
Relation to Head of House:
Head
Marital Status:
Married
Spouse's Name:
Fannie Doeifuss
Father's Birthplace:
Germany
Mother's Birthplace:
Germany
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
Henry Doeifuss
57
[51]
Fannie Doeifuss
53
Isaac Doeifuss
29
Rae Doeifuss
25
Maurice Doeifuss
23
Alice Doeifuss
20
Leon Doeifuss
18
Isaaorl Cohen
25
321. “1900 Federal Census,” Danville, PA.
Name:Henry Dreifuss living on Mill St Ward 3
Age:41
Birth Date:Jan 1859
Birthplace:Germany
Home in 1900:Danville, Montour, Pennsylvania
Race:White
Gender:Male
Immigration Year:1875
Relation to Head of House:Head
Marital Status:Married
Spouse's Name:Fany Dreifuss
Marriage Year:1880
Years Married:20
Father's Birthplace:Germany
Mother's Birthplace:Germany
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Dreifuss 41
Fany Dreifuss 42
Isaac Dreifuss 19
Leobold Dreifuss 16
Rachael Dreifuss 14
Morris Dreifuss 13
Alice Dreifuss 10
Leon Dreifuss 7
Name:Henry Dreifuss living on Mill St Ward 3
Age:41
Birth Date:Jan 1859
Birthplace:Germany
Home in 1900:Danville, Montour, Pennsylvania
Race:White
Gender:Male
Immigration Year:1875
Relation to Head of House:Head
Marital Status:Married
Spouse's Name:Fany Dreifuss
Marriage Year:1880
Years Married:20
Father's Birthplace:Germany
Mother's Birthplace:Germany
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Dreifuss 41
Fany Dreifuss 42
Isaac Dreifuss 19
Leobold Dreifuss 16
Rachael Dreifuss 14
Morris Dreifuss 13
Alice Dreifuss 10
Leon Dreifuss 7
322. Ship manifest record for Fanny Baumann obtained by PAD on 10/14/2000 gave her age as 22 on 3 Sept 1879 which would give her birth year as 1857. see note #200. Her birthday as Jul 1859 is from 1900 census.
1900 Census records of Montour County PA Series T623 Reel 1445 Enumeration Distr 106 Sheet No 2B Ward 3 at 288 Mill St, County Seat (Danville, PA). Records obtained by Barry Finkel and sent to PAD in July 1997.
I found April 21st 1880 Mifflinbrg Telegraph report of marraige of Henry Dreifuss and Fanny ‘Bowman’ “at the residence of the bride’s sister in Mifflinburg on the 18th of April.
1900 Census records of Montour County PA Series T623 Reel 1445 Enumeration Distr 106 Sheet No 2B Ward 3 at 288 Mill St, County Seat (Danville, PA). Records obtained by Barry Finkel and sent to PAD in July 1997.
I found April 21st 1880 Mifflinbrg Telegraph report of marraige of Henry Dreifuss and Fanny ‘Bowman’ “at the residence of the bride’s sister in Mifflinburg on the 18th of April.
323. Death Certificate Fannie Bauman Dreifuss.
File: FannieBaumanDreifussDeathCert
File: FannieBaumanDreifussDeathCert
324. “Sandusky Register, Tues 29 Mar 1932,” Newspapers.com.
325. According to find by Karen Dreifuss Burk she found the following in "Germans to America" index:
--Vol 31 Aaron Dreifuss, age 16, from unknown village Germany, sailed on "Hermann" from Bremen to New York, arriving 2/2/1874. PAD verified this information by obtaining the actual passenger manifest (see note 201). Occupation was listed as merchant.
--Vol 32 (page 112) Heinrich Dreifuss, age 17*, sailed on "Pomerania" from Hamburg and Harve to New York, arriving June 2 1875. Date consistant with year 1875 from LLD.
--Vol 34, Fanny Baumann (two n's)age 22, occupation "lady" from Baden sailed on the "Frisia" from Hamburg and Harve to New York arriving 3 September 1879. Date consistent with year 1879 from LLD. (PAD obtained the actual passenger list from the Frisia voyage and Karen's information is correct. Country of origin given as Bavaria- see note 200.
*Note: Henry's age was really 16. Possibly called himself 17 to obtain a work permit. Had to be younger than 18 to obtain citizenship easier. At the Ohio Genealogy Conference attended by Frank and Karen it was
stated it was the custom for immigrants to declare themselves older than they were to get working papers, but it was also an advantage to be under 18 to eliminate one step in becoming a citizen.
--Vol 31 Aaron Dreifuss, age 16, from unknown village Germany, sailed on "Hermann" from Bremen to New York, arriving 2/2/1874. PAD verified this information by obtaining the actual passenger manifest (see note 201). Occupation was listed as merchant.
--Vol 32 (page 112) Heinrich Dreifuss, age 17*, sailed on "Pomerania" from Hamburg and Harve to New York, arriving June 2 1875. Date consistant with year 1875 from LLD.
--Vol 34, Fanny Baumann (two n's)age 22, occupation "lady" from Baden sailed on the "Frisia" from Hamburg and Harve to New York arriving 3 September 1879. Date consistent with year 1879 from LLD. (PAD obtained the actual passenger list from the Frisia voyage and Karen's information is correct. Country of origin given as Bavaria- see note 200.
*Note: Henry's age was really 16. Possibly called himself 17 to obtain a work permit. Had to be younger than 18 to obtain citizenship easier. At the Ohio Genealogy Conference attended by Frank and Karen it was
stated it was the custom for immigrants to declare themselves older than they were to get working papers, but it was also an advantage to be under 18 to eliminate one step in becoming a citizen.
326. Pasenger list obtained at FHC Oct 14, 2000 by PAD. She came alone apparently at age 22. Record on line 200 has her as Fanny BAUMANN, a female lady from "Bavaria".
327. Death Certicate Aaron Dreifuss
File: AaronDreifuss DeathCertificate
File: AaronDreifuss DeathCertificate
328. I found his record on the Hermann:
line 52 of the S. S. Hermann Manifest sailing from Bremen (departure date not on manifest) arriving at Castle Garden 2 Feb 1874, found at SeriesM237, roll 387, frame 8 (eight).
Aron Dreifuss Occupation Merchant
Age 16
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 2 Feb 1874
Origin Germany
Port Bremen
Last Residence U
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Hermann
Passage Unknown
line 52 of the S. S. Hermann Manifest sailing from Bremen (departure date not on manifest) arriving at Castle Garden 2 Feb 1874, found at SeriesM237, roll 387, frame 8 (eight).
Aron Dreifuss Occupation Merchant
Age 16
Sex M
Literacy U
Arrived 2 Feb 1874
Origin Germany
Port Bremen
Last Residence U
Destination USA
Plan Unknown
Ship Hermann
Passage Unknown
329. Name:
Morris Bien
Home in 1920:
Philadelphia Ward 38, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Age:
33
Estimated birth year:
abt 1887
Birthplace:
Pennsylvania
Relation to Head of House:
Self (Head)
[Head]
Spouse's name:
Bessie
Father's Birth Place:
District of Columbia
Mother's Birth Place:
Pennsylvania
Marital Status:
Married
Race:
White
Sex:
Male
Home owned:
Own
Able to read:
Yes
Able to Write:
Yes
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
Morris Bien
33
Bessie Bien
33
Isadore L Bien
11
Herbert A Bien
9
[89]
Aaron Dreifuss
63
Hannah Dreifuss
68
View
Original
Record
View original image
View blank form
Morris Bien
Home in 1920:
Philadelphia Ward 38, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Age:
33
Estimated birth year:
abt 1887
Birthplace:
Pennsylvania
Relation to Head of House:
Self (Head)
[Head]
Spouse's name:
Bessie
Father's Birth Place:
District of Columbia
Mother's Birth Place:
Pennsylvania
Marital Status:
Married
Race:
White
Sex:
Male
Home owned:
Own
Able to read:
Yes
Able to Write:
Yes
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household Members:
Name
Age
Morris Bien
33
Bessie Bien
33
Isadore L Bien
11
Herbert A Bien
9
[89]
Aaron Dreifuss
63
Hannah Dreifuss
68
View
Original
Record
View original image
View blank form
330. “Certificate of Marriage, State of New York of Aaron Dreifuss to Hannchen Baumann,” 25th May 1879, Brooklyn, NY, New York City Department of Records and Information Services, Municipal Archives, 31 Chambers St NY NY 10007.
Obtained by PAD in March 2008
Witnesses were Henry Weis (Weit?) & A Schreiber
“Attest” (officiated by) Rev. WF Lnebky?
Official Station: Johnson near Ewe
Residence 16 & Ewen St?
1 Full Name of Groom Aaron Dreyfuss
2 Place of Residence Brooklyn E D
3 Age 24
4 Wht
5 Occupation Merchant
6 Place of Birth Baden
7 Fathers Name Isaac Dreyfuss
8 Mothers Maiden name Rose Bernheimer
9 No. of groom’s Marriage first
10 Name of Bride Hanna Baumann
Maiden name if a widow single
11 Place of Residence New York
12 Age 25
13 Wht
14 Blace of Birth Baden
15 Father’s name Lob Baumann (o in Lob has .. over it, like Loeb
16 Mother’s maiden name Esther BaumanNo of Bride’s Marriage first
Note that the Certificate of Marriage page itself (first page) gives the brides name as “Hannchen Baumann” with 2 n’s at end
Obtained by PAD in March 2008
Witnesses were Henry Weis (Weit?) & A Schreiber
“Attest” (officiated by) Rev. WF Lnebky?
Official Station: Johnson near Ewe
Residence 16 & Ewen St?
1 Full Name of Groom Aaron Dreyfuss
2 Place of Residence Brooklyn E D
3 Age 24
4 Wht
5 Occupation Merchant
6 Place of Birth Baden
7 Fathers Name Isaac Dreyfuss
8 Mothers Maiden name Rose Bernheimer
9 No. of groom’s Marriage first
10 Name of Bride Hanna Baumann
Maiden name if a widow single
11 Place of Residence New York
12 Age 25
13 Wht
14 Blace of Birth Baden
15 Father’s name Lob Baumann (o in Lob has .. over it, like Loeb
16 Mother’s maiden name Esther BaumanNo of Bride’s Marriage first
Note that the Certificate of Marriage page itself (first page) gives the brides name as “Hannchen Baumann” with 2 n’s at end
332. PAD obtained the actual passenger list and verified KAren's information. His occupation was listed as merchant.
333. “Emmedingen Baden Archive Summary Card Samuel Bloch,” March 2020, Emmendingen.
File: EmmendingenArchiveCardSamuelBloch
File: EmmendingenArchiveCardSamuelBloch
334. “Name Adoption List of Emmendingen/Niederemmendingen,” https://www.a-h-b.de/en/projects/genealogy/name-adoption-lists/eichstetten.
Entry # 26 is for 56 year old Lazer Bloch whose original name was Bloch. His birth year would then be ca 1753. This is in agreement with the Emmendingen(refs 1142 and 1143) Archive records for Lazarus Bloch and his son Samuel Bloch.
Other Blochs in entry #26 are (2) 46 yr old Judith (coresponds with Lazarus Bloch’s wife (new information her birth ca 1763).
(3) 23 year old Elias (corresponds to son Elias (ca 1886)
(4) 21 year old Jacob (corresponds)
(5) 20 year old Marx (corresponds)
(6) 17 year old Joshua (corresponds)
(7) 15 year old Magdalina (corresponds to Magdalena)
(8) 14 year old Rachael (birth year ca 1795) (probably corresponds to son Rafael listed in Emmendingen Archives cards)
(9) 13 year old Bräunlin (birth year ca 1796) (probably corresponds corresponds wih daughter Babette (Bräule) born 1796-1800)
(10) 10 year old Sara (corresonds to daughter Sara born ca 1799)
(11) 8 year old Marian (corresponds to daughter Mariam (Mariana) born ca 1801
(12) 7 year old Model (corresponds to daughter Model) although birth record here (ca 1802) differs slightly from Emmendinden Archive birth year of ca 1804
(13) 5 year old Samuel correspond to son Samuel (Wemser?) although birth record here (ca 1804) differs slightly from birth year of 7 Jan 1807)
(14) 2 year old Salomon coresponds
Since there is no Regina listed here she must be born after the date of the name list in 1809 or after.
File: BLOCHinEmmendingenNameList1808
Entry # 26 is for 56 year old Lazer Bloch whose original name was Bloch. His birth year would then be ca 1753. This is in agreement with the Emmendingen(refs 1142 and 1143) Archive records for Lazarus Bloch and his son Samuel Bloch.
Other Blochs in entry #26 are (2) 46 yr old Judith (coresponds with Lazarus Bloch’s wife (new information her birth ca 1763).
(3) 23 year old Elias (corresponds to son Elias (ca 1886)
(4) 21 year old Jacob (corresponds)
(5) 20 year old Marx (corresponds)
(6) 17 year old Joshua (corresponds)
(7) 15 year old Magdalina (corresponds to Magdalena)
(8) 14 year old Rachael (birth year ca 1795) (probably corresponds to son Rafael listed in Emmendingen Archives cards)
(9) 13 year old Bräunlin (birth year ca 1796) (probably corresponds corresponds wih daughter Babette (Bräule) born 1796-1800)
(10) 10 year old Sara (corresonds to daughter Sara born ca 1799)
(11) 8 year old Marian (corresponds to daughter Mariam (Mariana) born ca 1801
(12) 7 year old Model (corresponds to daughter Model) although birth record here (ca 1802) differs slightly from Emmendinden Archive birth year of ca 1804
(13) 5 year old Samuel correspond to son Samuel (Wemser?) although birth record here (ca 1804) differs slightly from birth year of 7 Jan 1807)
(14) 2 year old Salomon coresponds
Since there is no Regina listed here she must be born after the date of the name list in 1809 or after.
File: BLOCHinEmmendingenNameList1808
335. On the Origins of Eugenie Bloch:
Dad learned the names of Eugenie's parents were Jeanette and Samuel from Eugenie's death certificate. (Note: The Marriage record I found for Eugenie and Leopold years later verify her parents were Samuel Bloch and Jeanette Sommer or Sommes) Dad's Genealogical Record Book lists France as origin of both Jeanette and Samuel, because the name Jeanette seemed French to him - he told me as much. This might be a coincidence or maybe Dad had some other proof that has been lost.
The LDS Website has the following information on one Samuel BLOCH agreeing within 6 years of possible birth information from Berne Stadtarchiv records (see below) obtained by Hanna:
Sex: M
Birth: 7 Jan 1802
Mulhouse, Haut-Rhin, France
Parents:
Father: Isaac BLOCH
Mother: Beyle MOSEN
Source Information:
Film Number: 1903882
The 1880 census Kings County NY (and others as I recall) lists Eugenia's father, Samuel, from Germany and mother, Jeanette, from Switzerland. This may not be far from the truth because Samuel could have been born in Mulhouse (which is close to Sirentz and the Swiss border) and lived in Emmendingen before returning to Alsace and marrying Jeanette in 1837. They moved to Berne that same year.
This is the data below we got from Hanna Meyer-Moses' . She obtained this for Dad from:
Stadtarchiv und Dokumentationsdienst
Erlacherhof, Junkerngasse 47
Postfach, 3000 Bern 8
Telefon 031 321 62 12
Hanna never sent it to dad (March 1995) thinking it wrong as the dates were not consistent with dad's although they were close!!! I translated this as follows:
The inhabitant records 1887 has assigned us your inquiry from 28 February, since the old inhabitant registers are kept with us.
We do not believe that we have found the Bloch family looked up by you, since the dates do not agree with that of the birth of Eugenie (Hanna probably gave them the birthday 29 Apr 1853 which is what dad had). In our "Fremdem-Einwohnerregister II 1845-1854" as well as in "der Kontrol uber die Juden I Abteilung Niedergelassene 1840-1854" we see the entry of a Samuel Bloch (called Wemser) from Emmendingen, Baden, a Pferdehandler, married in 1837 to Jeanette Sommer, from Sierentz, Elsass born 1818. The Bloch-Sommer marriage produced the following children:Ida (20.11.1838-8.1.1850), Rosalie (*1840), Leopold (*1843), Eduard (+29.4.1847) as well as Eugenie (+1849). The date of "Einsassenscheins" (maybe its first settlement certificate?) is 25.1.1837, renewed 11.4.?1853. In July of 1853, the family moved to Thun, came back again, and was later sent away ("fortgewiesen"?). They traveled in August 1854 to Yverdon. The information is very abbreviated and is difficult to read. Other records of Samuel Bloch are missing here, and the Passport Records of 1838-1887, which is kept in the Staatsarchiv des Kantons Bern, refers only to Swiss citizens.
If you come on occasion to Berne, we will gladly show you the entries mentioned.
Stadtarchiv Bern
The Berne records cannot be dismissed since they deal with the family of Samuel Bloch and Jeanette Sommer and Eugenies siblings names which continued in her family. The names include deceased siblings, Ida and Eduard, as well as Leopold and Rosalie. Eugenie Bloch named her first children Rosa, Ida, Maude (Billye possibly named for Beyle MOSEN- her grandmother?), and Isaac ( her grandfather). Another interesting idea is that Eugenie nicknamed Estella to "Billy" for her grandmother, Beyle???
The family lived in Switzerland at least up to 1854. Eugenie is thought to have immigrated to the US in 1865 or 1866. Eugenie would have been 16 or 17 and could have come across either alone or with a parent or two.
Of course we also have the possible Levy origins of Jeanette Sommer's family and know that Jeanette might have had a brother Ludwig who also married a Bloch.
Dad learned the names of Eugenie's parents were Jeanette and Samuel from Eugenie's death certificate. (Note: The Marriage record I found for Eugenie and Leopold years later verify her parents were Samuel Bloch and Jeanette Sommer or Sommes) Dad's Genealogical Record Book lists France as origin of both Jeanette and Samuel, because the name Jeanette seemed French to him - he told me as much. This might be a coincidence or maybe Dad had some other proof that has been lost.
The LDS Website has the following information on one Samuel BLOCH agreeing within 6 years of possible birth information from Berne Stadtarchiv records (see below) obtained by Hanna:
Sex: M
Birth: 7 Jan 1802
Mulhouse, Haut-Rhin, France
Parents:
Father: Isaac BLOCH
Mother: Beyle MOSEN
Source Information:
Film Number: 1903882
The 1880 census Kings County NY (and others as I recall) lists Eugenia's father, Samuel, from Germany and mother, Jeanette, from Switzerland. This may not be far from the truth because Samuel could have been born in Mulhouse (which is close to Sirentz and the Swiss border) and lived in Emmendingen before returning to Alsace and marrying Jeanette in 1837. They moved to Berne that same year.
This is the data below we got from Hanna Meyer-Moses' . She obtained this for Dad from:
Stadtarchiv und Dokumentationsdienst
Erlacherhof, Junkerngasse 47
Postfach, 3000 Bern 8
Telefon 031 321 62 12
Hanna never sent it to dad (March 1995) thinking it wrong as the dates were not consistent with dad's although they were close!!! I translated this as follows:
The inhabitant records 1887 has assigned us your inquiry from 28 February, since the old inhabitant registers are kept with us.
We do not believe that we have found the Bloch family looked up by you, since the dates do not agree with that of the birth of Eugenie (Hanna probably gave them the birthday 29 Apr 1853 which is what dad had). In our "Fremdem-Einwohnerregister II 1845-1854" as well as in "der Kontrol uber die Juden I Abteilung Niedergelassene 1840-1854" we see the entry of a Samuel Bloch (called Wemser) from Emmendingen, Baden, a Pferdehandler, married in 1837 to Jeanette Sommer, from Sierentz, Elsass born 1818. The Bloch-Sommer marriage produced the following children:Ida (20.11.1838-8.1.1850), Rosalie (*1840), Leopold (*1843), Eduard (+29.4.1847) as well as Eugenie (+1849). The date of "Einsassenscheins" (maybe its first settlement certificate?) is 25.1.1837, renewed 11.4.?1853. In July of 1853, the family moved to Thun, came back again, and was later sent away ("fortgewiesen"?). They traveled in August 1854 to Yverdon. The information is very abbreviated and is difficult to read. Other records of Samuel Bloch are missing here, and the Passport Records of 1838-1887, which is kept in the Staatsarchiv des Kantons Bern, refers only to Swiss citizens.
If you come on occasion to Berne, we will gladly show you the entries mentioned.
Stadtarchiv Bern
The Berne records cannot be dismissed since they deal with the family of Samuel Bloch and Jeanette Sommer and Eugenies siblings names which continued in her family. The names include deceased siblings, Ida and Eduard, as well as Leopold and Rosalie. Eugenie Bloch named her first children Rosa, Ida, Maude (Billye possibly named for Beyle MOSEN- her grandmother?), and Isaac ( her grandfather). Another interesting idea is that Eugenie nicknamed Estella to "Billy" for her grandmother, Beyle???
The family lived in Switzerland at least up to 1854. Eugenie is thought to have immigrated to the US in 1865 or 1866. Eugenie would have been 16 or 17 and could have come across either alone or with a parent or two.
Of course we also have the possible Levy origins of Jeanette Sommer's family and know that Jeanette might have had a brother Ludwig who also married a Bloch.
336. I received copy July 1999 of letter dated Bern 14 March 1995 obtained via Hanna Meyer-Moses by dad's request from:
Stadtarchiv und Dokumentationsdienst
Erlacherhof, Junkerngasse 47
Postfach, 3000 Bern 8
Telefon 031 321 62 12
Translation reads:
The inhabitant records1887 has assigned us your inquiry from 28 February, since the old inhabitant registers are kept with us.
We do not believe that we have found the Bloch family looked up by you, since the dates do not agree with that of the birth of Eugenie (Hanna probably gave them the birthday 29 Apr 1853 which is what dad had). In our "Fremdem-Einwohnerregister II 1845-1854" as well as in "der Kontrol uber die Juden I Abteilung Niedergelassene 1840-1854" we see the entry of a Samuel Bloch (called Wemser) from Emmendingen, Baden, a Pferdehandler, married in 1837 to Jeanette Sommer, from Sierentz, Elsass born 1818. The Bloch-Sommer marriage produced the following children:Ida (20.11.1838-8.1.1850), Rosalie (*1840), Leopold (*1843), Eduard (+29.4.1847) as well as Eugenie (+1849). The date of the marriage certificate (not sure what "Einsassenscheins" is but assume its the marriage certificate) is 25.1.1837, renewed 11.4.?1853. In July of 1853, the family moved to Thun, came back again, and was later sent away("fortgewiesen"?). They traveled in August 1854 to Yverdon. The information is very abbreviated and is difficult to read. Other records of Samuel Bloch are missing here, and the Passport Records of 1838-1887, which is kept in the Staatsarchiv des Kantons Bern, refers only to Swiss citizens.
If you come on occasion to Berne, we will gladly show you the entries mentioned.
Stadtarchiv Bern
Stadtarchiv und Dokumentationsdienst
Erlacherhof, Junkerngasse 47
Postfach, 3000 Bern 8
Telefon 031 321 62 12
Translation reads:
The inhabitant records1887 has assigned us your inquiry from 28 February, since the old inhabitant registers are kept with us.
We do not believe that we have found the Bloch family looked up by you, since the dates do not agree with that of the birth of Eugenie (Hanna probably gave them the birthday 29 Apr 1853 which is what dad had). In our "Fremdem-Einwohnerregister II 1845-1854" as well as in "der Kontrol uber die Juden I Abteilung Niedergelassene 1840-1854" we see the entry of a Samuel Bloch (called Wemser) from Emmendingen, Baden, a Pferdehandler, married in 1837 to Jeanette Sommer, from Sierentz, Elsass born 1818. The Bloch-Sommer marriage produced the following children:Ida (20.11.1838-8.1.1850), Rosalie (*1840), Leopold (*1843), Eduard (+29.4.1847) as well as Eugenie (+1849). The date of the marriage certificate (not sure what "Einsassenscheins" is but assume its the marriage certificate) is 25.1.1837, renewed 11.4.?1853. In July of 1853, the family moved to Thun, came back again, and was later sent away("fortgewiesen"?). They traveled in August 1854 to Yverdon. The information is very abbreviated and is difficult to read. Other records of Samuel Bloch are missing here, and the Passport Records of 1838-1887, which is kept in the Staatsarchiv des Kantons Bern, refers only to Swiss citizens.
If you come on occasion to Berne, we will gladly show you the entries mentioned.
Stadtarchiv Bern
337. Data obtained by me on Sunday July 4 1999 on visit to Hanna Meyer-Moses' home. She obtained it for Dad from:
Stadtarchiv und Dokumentationsdienst
Erlacherhof, Junkerngasse 47
Postfach, 3000 Bern 8
Telefon 031 321 62 12
Further examination of this records was done inn April 2023 via email with the archivs by me. See reference1573
via letter dated 14 March 1995. This information was obtained via a request from LLD to Hanna. Hanna never sent it thinking it wrong as dates were not consistent with LLD. This letter in our records. Translation found in reference note 156.
Dad's Genealogical Record Book lists France as origin of both Jeanette and Samuel,Leopold and Eugenie's parents. His conviction originates from the name Jeanette.
However, 1880 census Kings County NY lists Eugenia's father from Germany and mother from Switzerland. But, see reference note #95 for Leopold Bloch.
File: EugenieBlochBernGenealogy
Stadtarchiv und Dokumentationsdienst
Erlacherhof, Junkerngasse 47
Postfach, 3000 Bern 8
Telefon 031 321 62 12
Further examination of this records was done inn April 2023 via email with the archivs by me. See reference1573
via letter dated 14 March 1995. This information was obtained via a request from LLD to Hanna. Hanna never sent it thinking it wrong as dates were not consistent with LLD. This letter in our records. Translation found in reference note 156.
Dad's Genealogical Record Book lists France as origin of both Jeanette and Samuel,Leopold and Eugenie's parents. His conviction originates from the name Jeanette.
However, 1880 census Kings County NY lists Eugenia's father from Germany and mother from Switzerland. But, see reference note #95 for Leopold Bloch.
File: EugenieBlochBernGenealogy
338. Rose Dreifuss Burg
in the U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007
Name:
Rose Dreifuss Burg [Rose Dreifuss Dreifuss]
Gender:
Female
Race:
White
Birth Date:
24 Apr 1874
Birth Place:
Brooklyn, New York
Father:
Leopold Dreifuss
Mother:
Eugenie Block
SSN:
064126427
Notes:
Dec 1938: Name listed as ROSE DREIFUSS BURG
in the U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007
Name:
Rose Dreifuss Burg [Rose Dreifuss Dreifuss]
Gender:
Female
Race:
White
Birth Date:
24 Apr 1874
Birth Place:
Brooklyn, New York
Father:
Leopold Dreifuss
Mother:
Eugenie Block
SSN:
064126427
Notes:
Dec 1938: Name listed as ROSE DREIFUSS BURG
339. 1900 Census
Ed 518 vol 97 Line 29 Sheet 16
Louis Schlesinger in the 1900 United States Federal Census
Name:
Louis Schlesinger
[Leonia Schlesinger]
Age:30
Birth Date: Nov 1869
Birthplace: Germany
Home in 1900: Brooklyn Ward 28, Kings, New York
Race:White
Gender:Male
Immigration Year:1889
Relation to Head of House:Head
Marital Status:Married
Spouse's Name:Ida Schlesinger
Marriage Year:1896
Years Married:4
Father's Birthplace:Germany
Mother's Birthplace:Germany
Household Members:
Name Age
Louis Schlesinger 30 Birth Date: Nov 1869
Ida Schlesinger 23 Birth Date: July 1876
Marsella Schlesinger 2 Birth Date: Feb 1898
Harold Schlesinger 1 Birth Date: Mar 1899
Ed 518 vol 97 Line 29 Sheet 16
Louis Schlesinger in the 1900 United States Federal Census
Name:
Louis Schlesinger
[Leonia Schlesinger]
Age:30
Birth Date: Nov 1869
Birthplace: Germany
Home in 1900: Brooklyn Ward 28, Kings, New York
Race:White
Gender:Male
Immigration Year:1889
Relation to Head of House:Head
Marital Status:Married
Spouse's Name:Ida Schlesinger
Marriage Year:1896
Years Married:4
Father's Birthplace:Germany
Mother's Birthplace:Germany
Household Members:
Name Age
Louis Schlesinger 30 Birth Date: Nov 1869
Ida Schlesinger 23 Birth Date: July 1876
Marsella Schlesinger 2 Birth Date: Feb 1898
Harold Schlesinger 1 Birth Date: Mar 1899
340. U.S., Find A Grave Index, 1600s-Current
Name:
Ida Schlesinger
Death Date:
1941
Cemetery:
Beth David Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place:
Elmont, Nassau County, New York, United States of America
Has Bio?:
N
Father:
Leopold Dreifuss
Mother:
Eugenie Dreifuss
Children:
Evelyn Slepyan
URL:
https://www.findagrave.com/mem...
Name:
Ida Schlesinger
Death Date:
1941
Cemetery:
Beth David Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place:
Elmont, Nassau County, New York, United States of America
Has Bio?:
N
Father:
Leopold Dreifuss
Mother:
Eugenie Dreifuss
Children:
Evelyn Slepyan
URL:
https://www.findagrave.com/mem...
341. “Jeff found this via Italian Genealogy Website.”
Today I received a copy of the Septem er 2, 1896 Certificate of
Marriage between Louis Schlessinger. Not much new info. He was 27,
she was 20. His parents were Meyer and Beatha Schlesinger (maiden name
not giver). It just says he was born in Germany. Witnesses were Harry
Schlesinger and ? (maybe Clint??) Schlessinger. (brothers maybe).
Today I received a copy of the Septem er 2, 1896 Certificate of
Marriage between Louis Schlessinger. Not much new info. He was 27,
she was 20. His parents were Meyer and Beatha Schlesinger (maiden name
not giver). It just says he was born in Germany. Witnesses were Harry
Schlesinger and ? (maybe Clint??) Schlessinger. (brothers maybe).
342. Louis Schlesinger
in the Hamburg Passenger Lists, 1850-1934
Name:
Louis Schlesinger
Gender:
männlich (Male)
Departure Age:
19
Birth Date:
abt 1869
Residence Place:
Zilenzig, Brandenburg
Departure Date:
17 Jun 1888
Departure Place:
Hamburg, Deutschland (Germany)
Arrival Place:
New York
Occupation:
Kaufmann
Ship Name:
Hammonia
Captain:
Hebich
Shipping Clerk:
Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft
Shipping Line:
Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft
Ship Type:
Dampfschiff
Ship Flag:
Deutschland
Accommodation:
Zwischendeck
Volume:
373-7 I, VIII A 1 Band 061
Household Members:
Name
Age
Louis Schlesinger
19
File: LouisSchlesinger Germanship
in the Hamburg Passenger Lists, 1850-1934
Name:
Louis Schlesinger
Gender:
männlich (Male)
Departure Age:
19
Birth Date:
abt 1869
Residence Place:
Zilenzig, Brandenburg
Departure Date:
17 Jun 1888
Departure Place:
Hamburg, Deutschland (Germany)
Arrival Place:
New York
Occupation:
Kaufmann
Ship Name:
Hammonia
Captain:
Hebich
Shipping Clerk:
Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft
Shipping Line:
Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft
Ship Type:
Dampfschiff
Ship Flag:
Deutschland
Accommodation:
Zwischendeck
Volume:
373-7 I, VIII A 1 Band 061
Household Members:
Name
Age
Louis Schlesinger
19
File: LouisSchlesinger Germanship
343. Louis Schlesinger
in the U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007
Name:
Louis Schlesinger
Birth Date:
18 Nov 1869
Birth Place:
Federal Republic of Germany
Claim Date:
8 Jul 1942
SSN:
103036996
Notes:
24 Sep 1976: Name listed as LOUIS SCHLESINGER
in the U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007
Name:
Louis Schlesinger
Birth Date:
18 Nov 1869
Birth Place:
Federal Republic of Germany
Claim Date:
8 Jul 1942
SSN:
103036996
Notes:
24 Sep 1976: Name listed as LOUIS SCHLESINGER
344. Louis Schlesinger
in the New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name:
Louis Schlesinger
Arrival Date:
29 Jun 1888
Birth Date:
abt 1869
Age:
19
Gender:
Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality:
Austrian
Place of Origin:
Austria
Port of Departure:
Hamburg, Germany and Le Havre, France
Destination:
USA
Port of Arrival:
New York, New York, USA
Ship Name:
Hammonia
Search Ship Database:
Search for the Hammonia in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Search for the departure in Hamburg Passenger Lists
in the New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name:
Louis Schlesinger
Arrival Date:
29 Jun 1888
Birth Date:
abt 1869
Age:
19
Gender:
Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality:
Austrian
Place of Origin:
Austria
Port of Departure:
Hamburg, Germany and Le Havre, France
Destination:
USA
Port of Arrival:
New York, New York, USA
Ship Name:
Hammonia
Search Ship Database:
Search for the Hammonia in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Search for the departure in Hamburg Passenger Lists
345. Louis Schlesinger
in the U.S., Naturalization Record Indexes, 1791-1992 (Indexed in World Archives Project)
Name:
Louis Schlesinger
Birth Date:
abt 1870
Birth Place:
Germany
Age at event:
27
Court District:
New York
Year of Arrival:
1887
Date of Action:
23 Oct 1897
File: LouisSchlesinger imm_p1
in the U.S., Naturalization Record Indexes, 1791-1992 (Indexed in World Archives Project)
Name:
Louis Schlesinger
Birth Date:
abt 1870
Birth Place:
Germany
Age at event:
27
Court District:
New York
Year of Arrival:
1887
Date of Action:
23 Oct 1897
File: LouisSchlesinger imm_p1
346. 1920 Census shows a large Schlesinger family living at 612 11th Street including:
Louis age 49
Ida age 42
Harold age 20
Evelyn 19
Alice age 17
Arthur age 16
Daisy age 15
Charles and Marcella Kazlow ages 27 and 24
Herwine Kazlow 2yrs 1 month
Leslie 1 yr 1 month
Chales Kazlow imigrated in 1900 from England and was an alien.
Louis age 49
Ida age 42
Harold age 20
Evelyn 19
Alice age 17
Arthur age 16
Daisy age 15
Charles and Marcella Kazlow ages 27 and 24
Herwine Kazlow 2yrs 1 month
Leslie 1 yr 1 month
Chales Kazlow imigrated in 1900 from England and was an alien.
347. “1920 Federal Census.”
1880 Census Louis Schlesinger at 664 Broadway Brooklyn, NY
1900 census 1138 Jefferson Ave Brooklyn
Louis was a naturalized citizen
1920 Census shows a large extended family lof 11 iving at 612 11th Street including:
Louis age 49 Immigrated 1887 Naturalized 1897
Ida age 42
Harold age 20
Evelyn 19
Alice age 17
Arthur age 16
Daisy age 15
Charles and Marcella Kazlow ages 27 and 24 and Charles imigrated 1900
Herwine Kazlow 2yrs 1 month
Leslie 1 yr 1 month
1880 Census Louis Schlesinger at 664 Broadway Brooklyn, NY
1900 census 1138 Jefferson Ave Brooklyn
Louis was a naturalized citizen
1920 Census shows a large extended family lof 11 iving at 612 11th Street including:
Louis age 49 Immigrated 1887 Naturalized 1897
Ida age 42
Harold age 20
Evelyn 19
Alice age 17
Arthur age 16
Daisy age 15
Charles and Marcella Kazlow ages 27 and 24 and Charles imigrated 1900
Herwine Kazlow 2yrs 1 month
Leslie 1 yr 1 month
348. “1930 Federal Census.”
Name:Louis Schlessinger
Birth Year:abt 1870
Gender:Male
Race:White
Birthplace:Germany
Marital Status:Married
Relation to Head of House:Head
Home in 1930:Brooklyn, Kings, New York
Street address: Eastern Parkway
Ward of City:New York
Block:G
House Number in Cities or Towns:938
Dwelling Number:23
Family Number:71
Home Owned or Rented:Rented
Home Value:68
Radio Set:Yes
Lives on Farm:No
Age at First Marriage:26
Attended School:No
Able to Read and Write: Yes
Father's Birthplace:Germany
Mother's Birthplace:Germany
Language Spoken:German
Immigration Year:1885
Naturalization:Naturalized
Able to Speak English:Yes
Occupation:Manager
Industry:Clothing
Class of Worker:Wage or salary worker
Neighbors:View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Louis Schlessinger 60
Ida Schlessinger 53
Alice Schlessinger 27
Herwin Kazlaw 13
Leslie Kazlaw 11
Perry Kazlaw 10
Note that the children of of Charles and Marcella Schlesinger Kazlow were living with their grandparents, but not Charles and Marcella. Their 27 year old daughter Alice was single and living with them.
Name:Louis Schlessinger
Birth Year:abt 1870
Gender:Male
Race:White
Birthplace:Germany
Marital Status:Married
Relation to Head of House:Head
Home in 1930:Brooklyn, Kings, New York
Street address: Eastern Parkway
Ward of City:New York
Block:G
House Number in Cities or Towns:938
Dwelling Number:23
Family Number:71
Home Owned or Rented:Rented
Home Value:68
Radio Set:Yes
Lives on Farm:No
Age at First Marriage:26
Attended School:No
Able to Read and Write: Yes
Father's Birthplace:Germany
Mother's Birthplace:Germany
Language Spoken:German
Immigration Year:1885
Naturalization:Naturalized
Able to Speak English:Yes
Occupation:Manager
Industry:Clothing
Class of Worker:Wage or salary worker
Neighbors:View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Louis Schlessinger 60
Ida Schlessinger 53
Alice Schlessinger 27
Herwin Kazlaw 13
Leslie Kazlaw 11
Perry Kazlaw 10
Note that the children of of Charles and Marcella Schlesinger Kazlow were living with their grandparents, but not Charles and Marcella. Their 27 year old daughter Alice was single and living with them.
349. Letter from Lester dated23 March 1999 he says his father name on his birth certificate was Louis Stone. Said his father was rich ganster, Jewish mafia or Brownsville gang but his mother would not ask for any help. She lived with him and his family in the Brownsville area of Brooklyn but was not accepted by his mother and was miserable and left him.
350. E-mail received from Jinny Royer on Nov 25, 2021 in response to a message I wrote to her and her siblings the day before:
Hi Peter,
Happy Hannukka to you as well.
The mystery of my Dad’s paternity has finally been solved through DNA matches on Ancestry and the research of a gentleman my Dad had worked with before he passed who stayed in touch with me. Below is the email that he sent me with his research and conclusions. It turns out Dad’s father was Louis Muncheck. He was the son of Hyman and Ida Muncheck who had a fish and produce store in Brooklyn. It also seems that my father had 2 younger half-sisters.
Best regards,
Jinny
Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: Robert Leiser <robert.leiser@ntlworld.com>
Date: October 3, 2021 at 5:04:24 PM PDT
To: JLRoyer <JLRoyer@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: More info on Lester Stones parentage?
Hi Jinny
Good to hear from you.
I wrote down all the details behind my working out as I was going along so I could check it makes sense, but here is the summary of what I discovered…
• By looking at Rick’s close matches on his dad’s side I could see that a number of them are descended from the Muncheck family, who migrated to New York from Poland in 1890. (Note that the family name is written various ways in different documents, including Munchick, Montchick, Menchick etc.)
• Looking more closely, it was clear from Rick's very close matches that he must be a descendant of Hyman Muncheck and Ida Granatowicz, though it’s not exactly clear what the lineage to him from them is
• Another of Rick’s matches is “mrosenbluthfamily”, that is Matthew Rosenbluth, and from his tree in Ancestry, I was able to work out how he is connected to Rick. He is descended from the Granatowicz family. Specifically, his great-grandmother was Dora Granatowicz, the sister of Ida Granatowicz
• By looking at the matches you share with Rick, I can see these Muncheck descendants among them, so like Rick you must be descended from Munchecks
• Looking still at the matches you share with Rick, I noticed that you also match with “mrosenbluthfamily”. That’s very interesting, because Matthew is not descended from the Munchecks. The fact that you match him and also the various Muncheck family descendants means it is almost certain that you are descended from the same couple as Rick, that is Isidore Muncheck and Ida Granatowicz
• I know that Lester was born in Brooklyn in 1910. At that time, Hyman and Ida were also living in Brooklyn, where they raised their family. In the 1910 US census, they were living at 43 Osborn Street with their 8 children. Of these, the two oldest boys were Louis, a Fish Store Clerk, who was 23, and Max, who was 17
• In the same census, Lester’s mother, Emma Dreifuss, was living with her parents and siblings at 736 Lexington Avenue. She was 25
• Looking at a map, I see that these two addresses are only about 2 miles apart.
Putting all this together, it’s almost certain that Lester’s father was one of the Muncheck boys, probably Louis.
I realise it’s a lot to take in, but I hope it makes sense to you.There are various ways to check this. If it’s right, I can say what range of DNA we would expect you to share with Matthew Rosenbluth and the various Muncheck matches, and you can look at your data to see if the shared cM are within the predicted ranges. I’m happy to help you with that, if you like.
It would be good to hear what you make of this.
All the best,
Bob.
On 3 Oct 2021, at 23:35, JLRoyer <JLRoyer@comcast.net> wrote:
Hello Bob,
Yes this email address is still current and I look forward to your update.
Jinny Royer
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 3, 2021, at 12:43 AM, Bob Leiser <robert.leiser@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hello Jinny
You may recall we were in contact some time back, as your father had contacted me years previously regarding our yDNA match and his search for his father’s identity.
At that time I was helping Rick Lunn solve a mystery in his ancestry, and we made significant progress. Having done that it occurred to me that, since you are a DNA match with Rick at Ancestry on your dad’s side, what we learned about Rick might shed some light on your dad’s search.
That proved to be the case and I’m now fairly confident that I have at last solved this mystery.
I just wanted to check that this email address still works and whether this is something you are still interested in hearing about?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Bob Leiser
On 19 Feb 2019, at 15:11, Bob Leiser <robert.leiser@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Thanks, Jinny. That clarifies things a bit as it means your 50% Jewish came from your dad, just like Rick’s did from his, and my grandfather was Jewish, so we’re clearly looking for Jewish line.
Bob.
On 19 Feb 2019, at 15:02, Jinny Royer <jlroyer@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Bob,
According to my DNA on Ancestry I’m 50% European Jewish. My mother was a gentile, England, Wales and Northern Europe. After doing additional an additional search for Emma Giese I don’t think she is my Grandmother. She died Emma Giese. Thank you for all your efforts is solving this mystery.
Best regards
Jinny
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 19, 2019, at 6:42 AM, Robert Leiser <robert.leiser@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Jinny, thanks very much for this.
I had a quick look at my matches, and there are a few who have people with the Giese surname in. In fact, one was born in Pomerania, which is where my paternal ancestors were, but he isn’t Jewish. I had been expecting they would be, as my paternal grandfather was, and Rick’s 50% Jewish DNA seems to have come from his father’s side.
Were both of your parents Jewish?
It’s puzzling, but I think we’re getting somewhere!
Bob.
On 18 Feb 2019, at 21:45, Jinny Royer <jlroyer@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Bob,
Per my response to your message on Ancestry.com. I wasn’t able to attach this image on Ancestry so I’ve attached it here. Have you seen the name Giese in any of your research. This marriage record 1907 and maybe Paul Giese is my Grandfather and they were divorced and at the time the disgrace was hidden perhaps.
<IMG_0345.PNG>
Best regards,
Jinny Royer
Sent from my iPad
Hi Peter,
Happy Hannukka to you as well.
The mystery of my Dad’s paternity has finally been solved through DNA matches on Ancestry and the research of a gentleman my Dad had worked with before he passed who stayed in touch with me. Below is the email that he sent me with his research and conclusions. It turns out Dad’s father was Louis Muncheck. He was the son of Hyman and Ida Muncheck who had a fish and produce store in Brooklyn. It also seems that my father had 2 younger half-sisters.
Best regards,
Jinny
Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
From: Robert Leiser <robert.leiser@ntlworld.com>
Date: October 3, 2021 at 5:04:24 PM PDT
To: JLRoyer <JLRoyer@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: More info on Lester Stones parentage?
Hi Jinny
Good to hear from you.
I wrote down all the details behind my working out as I was going along so I could check it makes sense, but here is the summary of what I discovered…
• By looking at Rick’s close matches on his dad’s side I could see that a number of them are descended from the Muncheck family, who migrated to New York from Poland in 1890. (Note that the family name is written various ways in different documents, including Munchick, Montchick, Menchick etc.)
• Looking more closely, it was clear from Rick's very close matches that he must be a descendant of Hyman Muncheck and Ida Granatowicz, though it’s not exactly clear what the lineage to him from them is
• Another of Rick’s matches is “mrosenbluthfamily”, that is Matthew Rosenbluth, and from his tree in Ancestry, I was able to work out how he is connected to Rick. He is descended from the Granatowicz family. Specifically, his great-grandmother was Dora Granatowicz, the sister of Ida Granatowicz
• By looking at the matches you share with Rick, I can see these Muncheck descendants among them, so like Rick you must be descended from Munchecks
• Looking still at the matches you share with Rick, I noticed that you also match with “mrosenbluthfamily”. That’s very interesting, because Matthew is not descended from the Munchecks. The fact that you match him and also the various Muncheck family descendants means it is almost certain that you are descended from the same couple as Rick, that is Isidore Muncheck and Ida Granatowicz
• I know that Lester was born in Brooklyn in 1910. At that time, Hyman and Ida were also living in Brooklyn, where they raised their family. In the 1910 US census, they were living at 43 Osborn Street with their 8 children. Of these, the two oldest boys were Louis, a Fish Store Clerk, who was 23, and Max, who was 17
• In the same census, Lester’s mother, Emma Dreifuss, was living with her parents and siblings at 736 Lexington Avenue. She was 25
• Looking at a map, I see that these two addresses are only about 2 miles apart.
Putting all this together, it’s almost certain that Lester’s father was one of the Muncheck boys, probably Louis.
I realise it’s a lot to take in, but I hope it makes sense to you.There are various ways to check this. If it’s right, I can say what range of DNA we would expect you to share with Matthew Rosenbluth and the various Muncheck matches, and you can look at your data to see if the shared cM are within the predicted ranges. I’m happy to help you with that, if you like.
It would be good to hear what you make of this.
All the best,
Bob.
On 3 Oct 2021, at 23:35, JLRoyer <JLRoyer@comcast.net> wrote:
Hello Bob,
Yes this email address is still current and I look forward to your update.
Jinny Royer
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 3, 2021, at 12:43 AM, Bob Leiser <robert.leiser@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hello Jinny
You may recall we were in contact some time back, as your father had contacted me years previously regarding our yDNA match and his search for his father’s identity.
At that time I was helping Rick Lunn solve a mystery in his ancestry, and we made significant progress. Having done that it occurred to me that, since you are a DNA match with Rick at Ancestry on your dad’s side, what we learned about Rick might shed some light on your dad’s search.
That proved to be the case and I’m now fairly confident that I have at last solved this mystery.
I just wanted to check that this email address still works and whether this is something you are still interested in hearing about?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Bob Leiser
On 19 Feb 2019, at 15:11, Bob Leiser <robert.leiser@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Thanks, Jinny. That clarifies things a bit as it means your 50% Jewish came from your dad, just like Rick’s did from his, and my grandfather was Jewish, so we’re clearly looking for Jewish line.
Bob.
On 19 Feb 2019, at 15:02, Jinny Royer <jlroyer@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Bob,
According to my DNA on Ancestry I’m 50% European Jewish. My mother was a gentile, England, Wales and Northern Europe. After doing additional an additional search for Emma Giese I don’t think she is my Grandmother. She died Emma Giese. Thank you for all your efforts is solving this mystery.
Best regards
Jinny
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 19, 2019, at 6:42 AM, Robert Leiser <robert.leiser@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Jinny, thanks very much for this.
I had a quick look at my matches, and there are a few who have people with the Giese surname in. In fact, one was born in Pomerania, which is where my paternal ancestors were, but he isn’t Jewish. I had been expecting they would be, as my paternal grandfather was, and Rick’s 50% Jewish DNA seems to have come from his father’s side.
Were both of your parents Jewish?
It’s puzzling, but I think we’re getting somewhere!
Bob.
On 18 Feb 2019, at 21:45, Jinny Royer <jlroyer@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Bob,
Per my response to your message on Ancestry.com. I wasn’t able to attach this image on Ancestry so I’ve attached it here. Have you seen the name Giese in any of your research. This marriage record 1907 and maybe Paul Giese is my Grandfather and they were divorced and at the time the disgrace was hidden perhaps.
<IMG_0345.PNG>
Best regards,
Jinny Royer
Sent from my iPad